Curse

thetwistedboy · Jun 04, 2011, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

I believe that elem is for the kds. Bip should help alot. I got rid of earth elem. Im testing wanderlust/earthbind nec rit(every kd lasts 3 secs).

33% health per bip. Be nice if there was a low hp hero bip build that didn't require too much microing.

I'm just gonna slap some superior runes on the BiP to lower his hp so that healing him won't be as much of an issue, as for the earth ele...

I know it was there for the kds, but the energy is still a problem even with BiP. I am going to test with a PI mesmer, maybe even try out some elite I haven't ever used before like enchanter's conundrum... I really think a PI mesmer would be better for kds and the damage should be a lot better.

Plutoman · Jun 04, 2011, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Watch the health, because with lower max health he's more likely to be focused, and being focused while using BiP can be dangerous. I've not tested that, so I'm dealing in theory, but it seems risky. If you try it, post how it goes!

EFGJack · Jun 07, 2011, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Build reworked and the main post updated. Templates are available as a download.

The basics of the build remains the same. After further testing the build in some of the harder areas, the Earth Elementalist has it's place in certain builds (example), but he couldn’t keep up as well as an Ice Elementalist could with AOE Snares - in general play.. And the Frost mage loses it’s meaning when monsters just explode. A Micro’d Binding Chains is often more than enough to cover up for fleeing foes.

“Brace Yourself!” & Desperation / Drunken Blow is a very powerful combination, but it’s really taxing to keep micro’ing Brace every 4 seconds, so I removed the concept from this build. Player bars changed to simple but effective builds.

I compressed the Balthazar's Spirit Smiter and Channeling Smiter into one bar in order to fit in one more hero.

• With the removal of the second Smiting Monk the Unyielding Aura Healer is now Hero #1 and will cover up for the lost Shield of Absorption.
• The Ritualist Smiter now carries Judge’s Insight and Balthazar’s Spirit.
• SoH Smiter has room to carry spirits such as Edge of Extinction and Frozen Soil without losing functionality.
• BiP Support now offers enchantment removal and resource management instead of conditions from the Curses line.
• Two Mesmers back up the removed Smiter and Elementalist.

I have cleared all four areas of DoA Hard Mode with the current version of this build, but if there are any anomalities or weaknesses - point them out and I'll try to address them. Small clip of the Foundry Hard Mode - doesn't require too much micro management: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHU0nJcnsM

Dzjudz · Jun 07, 2011, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Looking at that clip, I have no idea why you use RoJ. 50+% of the time it's used on almost dead foes, sometimes even casting after that foe is dead (resulting in RoJ not even hitting anything). Most of the rest of the time enemies scatter very quickly from it, resulting in much less efficiency from your mesmers and splinter etc. It's a pity there's not much else to bring. But instead of modern rojway I'd call it defensive hero-way with random smiters.

Edit: don't get me wrong, it's boss that you clear doa HM, but I don't have the illusion it's thanks to roj. It's thanks to 3 defensive heroes and 2 shutdown mesmers.

EFGJack · Jun 07, 2011, 12:35 PM // 12:35

It's mostly SY enabling that approach in the third room, and yeah, the clip doesn't do much justice for ROJs as it's difficult to successfully ball the foes in the first four rooms of the Foundry. But it's pretty nice in the fifth room and generally in the three other zones.

I could totally use elementalists and such, but the smiters are there for more than just damage. Most of their abilities serve a double purpose - much like the mesmer heroes do.

hunter · Jun 07, 2011, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Basically you ditched MoP, 1 BiP and the earth ele for more defense, shut down and armor ignoring dmg. Build looks better.

EFGJack · Jun 07, 2011, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Basically you ditched MoP, 1 BiP and the earth ele for more defense, shut down and armor ignoring dmg. Build looks better.

Mark of Pain is a good skill, but it basically lost it's purpose in the 7H update and it's not worth bringing in most situations, especially not if you don't run HB/WW. On the Earth Elementalist-- He can be worth bringing along but in most situations a Mesmer or an air elementalist is a better option. The BiP support is still there, though.
I'm not convinced it's a wasted skillslot yet as the alternatives aren't as impressive: Life Transfer & Ravenous Gaze -- if I were to keep the blood spec. RG is decent but the damage packet can't compete wih what the additional energy can do for the other heroes. One option would be to completely replace the necro-- but the hidden damage the condition removal, adrenaline & energy gains provide needs to be weighted with other possibilities.

Over all I'm quite happy with the build now.

AndrewSX · Jun 07, 2011, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Gotta agree partly with hunter, now the team looks more solid and forgiving (and maybe less strange/glass cannon).
Minor tweaks may be needed for preference of the player, but one ting i think you should trow in is a fast recharge mesmer hex to feed drain delusions: the only ones atm are Inept-Clusmi-WEye-mistrust (quite wasted as feed for drain) and Aconudrum. Maybe in place for spiritual pain, things like Overload (or any 5ish sec recharge range hex) should work.

Apart this little point, i have a question: i know those builds require active microing from player, no problem with it, but do you generally disable (apart mantained ench obviously) what you plan to micro or just leave heroes free and "give the hints" when needed(e.g: Roj, Panic, ST+shelter chain)?

Daesu · Jun 07, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I don't think BiP is worth bringing in such a team, maybe Blood Ritual would work better. The sac on that necro must be huge considering he also brings DF. He would be healing himself most of the time.

EFGJack · Jun 07, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

@AndrewSX - I agree. Spiritual brain can be changed for Overload. I'll get to it once I get home. And to answer your question - I let them use those abilities and only micro when 'necessary'. Rarely I disable their spells and explicitly micro 'em.

@Daesu - The beep necro is indeed a bit shady still. But I wouldn't change him because of the sacrifice costs, it's not a real issue. BiP and BR both have their dis/advantages, and the hero functions well the way he is set atm.

I'll look for a better option to provide resource management and enchantment removal; The added redbarring is expendable (condition removal needs to be cranked on another hero, though).

AndrewSX · Jun 07, 2011, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I gave a look on mesmer hexes whith a 5-10 sec/ene range on wiki:
Illusion:Calculated Risk-Fragility-Shrinking Armor
Domination:Mind Wrack-Overload-Wastrel's Demise-Wastrel's Worry

Always useful on this argument the thread about mes heroes: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/o...t10481332.html

My bet goes on Overload, Calculated and Frag, in the order, for usefulness and AoE

P.S: ty for response about micro.

EFGJack · Jun 07, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

With Overload on the bar the chances for it being drained are slim. But it's still better if it gets drained over say, Panic or Mistrust - highly unlikely, but it can, and will happen every once in a while.

&Np answering. People seem to think I micro all 56 hero skills but I don't. I do have my routine but it only covers a handful of skills. ROJ, ST prots and Panic are not a part of the routine.

Wenspire · Jun 07, 2011, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Do you micro the monks' DH/HD? I tried equipping heroes those skills and seldom ever saw them being used.

thetwistedboy · Jun 08, 2011, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Do you micro the monks' DH/HD? I tried equipping heroes those skills and seldom ever saw them being used.

They use them when most of your party has taken damage. 50 healing doesn't do much on one person.

I like the new team... mostly... I don't like having the Panic/Ineptitude Mesmer combo because it's too mainstream... I don't mind using them if I need to though. And they are so much better than other options.

My main problem is the Dragon Slash build...

I hate that skill like no other. I hate the Dragon Slash spam build. I'm gonna make a variant with Hundred Blades and fitting curses back on the necro for MoP if the attribute spread doesn't look too bad... I might go back to try Dragon Slash since it's been a year since I've used it...

Daesu · Jun 08, 2011, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

@Daesu - The beep necro is indeed a bit shady still. But I wouldn't change him because of the sacrifice costs, it's not a real issue. BiP and BR both have their dis/advantages, and the hero functions well the way he is set atm.

I'll look for a better option to provide resource management and enchantment removal; The added redbarring is expendable (condition removal needs to be cranked on another hero, though).

I admit that I still don't like that 50% total sac which can happen if the necro BiPs right after casting DF. BR has a sac of only 17% versus 33% for BiP.

I suppose if you hold aggro really well, this may not be a problem but it looks like a risk.

psi101101 · Jun 10, 2011, 05:23 PM // 17:23

ive been using your other build for a Full DOA run and i switched to this one and i just cant seem to clear the 3rd room of Foundry... the necro and mesmers keep dying right off the bat, lol dunno whats goin on but i do like your other build for DOA better.. seems more stable

but then again, it could be me hahaah

Assylia · Jun 13, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

You're type of playing type is similar to the one I used on my Warrior when I was playing general PvE. Builds are a bit different, but we both use RoJ. Here's my team setup, and no I did not always use exactly those builds:

It's strong.

aspi · Jun 14, 2011, 11:55 AM // 11:55

hmm assylia, your build(s) do not have SY and/or Shelter. You sure you did some of the harder parts with this?
I do like the PI and roj combo, might try it to see if they can do it ok

KotCR · Jun 14, 2011, 01:57 PM // 13:57

A heavily microed tank-and-spank approach to everything would probably be ideal with that setup anyway, seems you only need Prot Spirit and SoA for that, and the skills being used (RoJ/PI/100B) are ideal with that approach.

Save Yourselves could be slotted onto the Warrior's bar easily enough though.

Assylia · Jun 14, 2011, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Shelter doesn't feel very necessary since i have PS, and tbh I never really tried Shelter. I don't get the point to bring SY either since you shouldn't have to protect your backline that much. Death Charge is really effective because I can jump in on a group of casters and then just spike if there isn't a wall or corner near.